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Sho-saka
27-04-09, 02:36 PM
KOEI, I love you for being nice people and want to please everyone, but this is where I'm going to either complain or rant about this one particular series that I wish it would go away, but being still mocked by the Western gaming media. So, if you don't like how this is going, then hit the 'Back' button immediately.

For the love of that is all good and virtue, would you please tell KOEI Japan (and Omega Force to the lesser extent) to minimise the number of Warriors games being released year by year and start doing something a bit creative (okay, maybe it's going to be risky, but at least it would ease the mockery that Western gaming media like to hate KOEI for being really repetitive, while not actually changing the gameplay once)?

And KOEI Europe, please (especially to the higher-ups (not Insp. Chin XP) who think that money is still important to them, despite the recession hitting us and that they stop publishing RPGs not-made-by-SE and give them to that androgynous company that I like to call Square Enix), please. Think about your reputation. Ever since Dynasty Warriors 2 arrived for so many years, many Western gaming journalists, websites and renown people have always been mocking you for not actually changing the gameplay once and that you spend more time advertising the Warriors franchise more than doing something worthwhile that they'll start to like you for once.

And I'm getting really tired to see another Warriors game released year-by-year and to see KOEI being targeted for so much mockery abuse. I mean look at the Metacritic rating for DW: Gundam 2 (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps3/dynastywarriorsgundam2)! It doesn't even get a score higher than Eurogamer.net's. And that's not all: Destructoid's clearly making sarcastic comments for the series (though it's very well written) (http://www.destructoid.com/why-dynasty-warriors-is-the-greatest-videogame-series-ever-129915.phtml), even Gamesradar too (http://www.gamesradar.com/pc/f/the-top-7-whos-buying-this-crap/a-2007042391755391074/g-2006032219817514003/p-2). And before you DW6 fans start to flame me that number 6 is different than the rest of the Warriors games, try looking closer. It's not that hard to look.

And now, I want some serious changes to KOEI. For once, if you can prove to me that you'll listen to any request and this one is simple: release some obscure games please, even if it will lose your money. You did it once with Gitaroo Man (and it became such a cult hit to many), so do it again, to spread the catalogue evenly. And please, please let Saihai no Yukue release it into European shores or something. Even Nintendo of Europe released some adventure games on the DS, including the Professor Layton series and I'm desperately wanted to know the story about Mistunari and his 'Baton-of-OBJECTION!', his sidekick Tamaki, that 'emo-smirky' guy (see avatar and sig) and a whole bunch of weird, lovable characters that I want to know and meet them. I don't really want it to become the 'Yakuza 3/3rd-Spiritual-Successor-to-Shenmue' type, where anywhere but Japan never gets it.

Phew, I hope this topic doesn't send me some hate PMs the next time I'm checking the inbox.

Fayt
27-04-09, 10:23 PM
I can understand where you are coming from, but KOEI (like any other gaming company for that matter) will meet the demand. I'm certain they get far more suggestions for even more Warriors games - and history has proven they are by far KOEI's best selling games as well. So they would be mad not to keep going down that path.

Having said that, I'd love to see them spread their wings a bit more, look at Square Enix for example. While Final Fantasy is indeed their best seller it is a series that has been around for a lot longer and may not even have as many titles which you count spinoffs etc (mind you I think it would be close). But Square Enix also manage to have some other big names to their bow, Dragon Quest/Warrior, Kingdom Hearts and several others. It's an area where KOEI have never really exploded out of the Warriors variants.

For me though, I just want more Kessens! :P

Mr.Honda
28-04-09, 05:56 PM
Good points there Fayt :p

Also, remember that KOEI, for the most part, has designed/released games with their Japanese gaming audience in mind. After all, they are a Japanese company.

KOEI recognizes the negative feedback their bread and butter series are receiving here in the western world. In fact, much of the recent news about KOEI is indicative of them trying to reach out more to us overseas (see KOEI-TECMO news, NIS America, etc.)

That may not stop them from still making these games locally in Japan, but its a step forward to try and re-establish some credibility with the western gaming community.

Let's not forget too that KOEI isn't the only gaming company who, at one point or another, has been guilty of rehashing the same game mechanics year after year (see anything published by EA sports).

Sho-saka
30-04-09, 02:17 AM
Yeah. I just wish that KOEI should act more like Capcom, in terms of actually listening to their fans, even if it's asking for the impossible. I mean, they are going to release Marvel vs. Capcom for the PSN/Xbox Live or something and that Ace Attorney spinoff that everyone (including me) can't wait to get their hands on. I know I can't change their minds on getting rid of the Warriors franchise for good, but unless they start being serious on not being typecast as a company, I'm not going to touch another Warriors game for good and start exploring the niche products.

I applaud KOEI for publishing Cross Edge (I wonder how Capcom itself is responding to that), Ar Tonelico; Prinny and other NIS games, but if it's going to be more serious of getting rid of its ugly image as portrayed by Western gaming media, I suggest asking Atlus to take back the rights to publish the games (the WHOLE Shin Megami Tensei series) in Europe (thus gaining some competition against Square Enix's androgynous JRPG catalogue and possibly Rising Star Games) AND most importantly, publish KOEI's niche catalogue too.

Yes, I know the Neoromance games are out, since they're basically dating sims for Japanese girls, and therefore will never see outside Japan and possibly mahjong games as well, but why not publish Zill O'll or Saihai no Yukue or both or even from KOEI's obscure catalogue? I'm sure that will make the Western gaming media some smiles and not starting to moan that there's another bloomin' Warriors game in sight.

And yes, I did mention Saihai no Yukue numerous times, because a) I love playing adventure games and b) my DS is seriously in need of getting another adventure fix, after disappointedly playing Lux-Pain (an ending that left me have a bittersweet aftertaste). And I will not stop mention this game, until KOEI realises that they need to actually broaden their catalogue and release the games to Europe; even if I compare SnY as KOEI's answer to Shenmue's-3rd-Spiritual-Successor/Yakuza, i.e. asking for the impossible.

Nevfx
08-05-09, 10:20 AM
I believe KOEI do listen to there fans, but if fans say different things, who should they listen to?

Onislash
08-05-09, 02:14 PM
My money goes to those who interest me. Sadly, being a RPG fan in Australia doesnt seem to be popular considering only Koei publishes most niche RPG here (that equals not FF mostly) and with NIS doing it in Europe now the chances are.. :(. I appericate that games like Atelier Iris 1-3 have no chance in hell otherwise (besides Ubisoft maybe?). These reasons plus others help to keep supporting the main series.

Sho-saka
08-05-09, 02:17 PM
I believe KOEI do listen to there fans, but if fans say different things, who should they listen to?

Well, they listen to the Warriors fans, but not listening to fans that are pretty much fed up with a bunch of Warriors games coming in all directions and wants something different from KOEI for once, including me. I mean as an example, somewhere in the world, there are a handful of Gitaroo Man fans demanded to have a sequel, though hardly very likely since iNiS (Gitaroo Man's developers and creator of Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents) are doing something else.

And then there's Saihai no Yukue, which surprise, surprise, is developed by Omega Force (yes, the guys who did the Warriors games), but since the members of the KOEI forums are more concerned with a huge amount of Dynasty/Samurai Warriors (Orochi) games, this will never come out to my beloved DS. And I partially blame the fans for not asking KOEI itself to release Omega Force's take on the Ace Attorney games and I blame KOEI for being so much concerned on giving the Warriors games more coverage than, let's say for example, Crimson Sea and other niche products that has not got to do anything with the Warriors franchise.

And yes as a treat, there is a demo to Saihai no Yukue, you'll need a good understanding of Japanese to play the game. (http://www.saihai.jp/trial/index.htm)

Onislash
08-05-09, 02:25 PM
Besides Sho-saka how many people have heard of Saihai no Yukue? That said considering Ace Attorney games timeframes for release in Europe (forever, IIRC) that could be a interesting idea for Koei.

Sho-saka
08-05-09, 02:53 PM
Besides Sho-saka how many people have heard of Saihai no Yukue? That said considering Ace Attorney games timeframes for release in Europe (forever, IIRC) that could be a interesting idea for Koei.

Hardly anyone besides me, but adding 'It's-made-by-Omega-Force-aka-the-developers-who-made-the-Warriors-games' line would certainly raised the fans' eyebrows or two and then spread the news via word-by-mouth or forums. Well, at least in theory (I think Court Records, the biggest Ace Attorney fansite, has at least posted SnY somewhere in the forums).

And besides, the more persistent that I want KOEI to spend more time releasing their own niche products (including Saihai no Yukue and Zill O'll) as well as niche RPGs-that-are-not-made-by-Sqaure-Enix, the better that the Western gaming media will stop mocking KOEI as the number 1 company for releasing those 'crappy' Warriors game and therefore, broaden their catalogue horizon.

However, since KOEI listens to the Warriors fans first and Getting-Tired-of-That-Franchise-and-Wanted-Something-Different-for-Once fans second (:(), I shall remain unconvinced and keep mentioning Saihai no Yukue, unless something surprising happens and all that effort has paid off.

Onislash
08-05-09, 03:01 PM
I will guarantee you wont change media outlets so easy, but I dont think any game by Koei is a absolute masterpiece ;) same with Square Enix ;). Besides how many Getting-Tired-of-That-Franchise-and-Wanted-Something-Different-for-Once are buying Koeis main games?

Nevfx
08-05-09, 04:26 PM
More people would know about Saihai no Yuke if/when it is released in the western world. You can't expect thousands to know about a Japan-only game.

Coincidently, I do know and am interested in the game. If I can get it, I plan to.

StratocasterEv
08-05-09, 04:51 PM
More people would know about Saihai no Yuke if/when it is released in the western world. You can't expect thousands to know about a Japan-only game.

Coincidently, I do know and am interested in the game. If I can get it, I plan to.

What's Saihai no Yukue about? I looked at some screenshots and they didn't really make much sense to me.

Nevfx
08-05-09, 05:15 PM
Its based on the battle(s) between Mitsunari Ishida and Ieyasu Tokugawa. Its a DS game.

http://www.koeiwarriors.co.uk/saihai-artworks.php

Look there.

Kyz99
09-05-09, 12:52 PM
Why dull down a good thing like the warriors games it makes Koei so much money that they have little reason to slow down on making the games its all about the money i think anyways =] and maybe in the future when Koei are happy with the warriors games they will venture out into other stuff but for the meantime i dont see them changing :rolleyes:

Nevfx
10-05-09, 04:22 PM
Of course its about money, but hey, no one hates the games, do they? Were not offended by then, so why not?

Sho-saka
11-05-09, 04:43 PM
I will guarantee you wont change media outlets so easy, but I dont think any game by Koei is a absolute masterpiece ;) same with Square Enix ;). Besides how many Getting-Tired-of-That-Franchise-and-Wanted-Something-Different-for-Once are buying Koeis main games?

Yeah, I used to respect Square Enix, until the creator of Final Fantasy went out and became Mistwalker (and produce Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey) and that FFX-2 ruined FFX's storyline (I still refuse to call it as a canon, despite what every FFX and possibly FFX-2 fans keep telling me); also milking the FF franchise cow till it dies of neglect; starting to produce those 'cease-and-desist' letters to their own fans and their fan-made products that are non-profit tributes to their games, thus decreasing the fans' support. Therefore, I don't want to see KOEI following that path.

And to answer your question, about a handful of people who first played the Warriors games at youth, but then got really tired at grinding yet another 30+ or something characters at the start of level 1 through another set of Dynasty/Samurai Warriors [Insert Number] (Orochi [Insert Number]) and not a lot of variety gameplay, which is good for a session of stress relief (like imagining you're beating a guy you don't like at school/work) on button mashing, but later on, there will be a point where you just can't take it anymore as a fan and start acting like Ben 'Yathzee' Croshaw (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/284-Silent-Hill-Homecoming). And that includes me.

Seriously, I don't really know how many KOEI forums members can endure the many obvious flaws that almost of the Warriors games have (yes, I know Strikeforce isn't like the games, but still...) and then been given another Warriors game that has very-to-no gameplay changes/improvements at all, before deciding to quit altogether and demanding KOEI (and possibly Omega Force) to start making a game from scratch that doesn't involve the word 'Warriors'.

I'm very glad Omega Force made Saihai no Yukue as a game (in very similar akin to the Ace Attorney series) that isn't from a Warriors franchise, but with KOEI EU/US being an ignorant company who only listens to the Warriors fans who want more Warriors Orochi sequels, DW:Gundam and less niche products (another Gitaroo Man sequel, please?) bringing to overseas for greedy financial reasons, I'm starting to worry about their future as a whole.

Don't really hate me. I really like KOEI as a company who is very polite to everyone, but there's going to be a point where even longtime fans, such as myself, start to criticise this for a problem that can never be erased.

Onislash
11-05-09, 05:17 PM
This is a matter of perspective, but I could level those claims at anyone. FIFA/PES game2000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000
will be a masterpiece I am sure but it still will be soccer like that FIFA 1996 I was playing (My first). Anyone want to accuse EA/Konami of being greedy? Hell, I could mention 2 certain genres that have constant rehases but no one accuses those delevopers of being greedly..

Nevfx
12-05-09, 09:37 AM
To me, Sho-saka, you just sound like a bitter Saihai no Yukue fan.

Sho-saka
13-05-09, 05:05 PM
Yeah, you're right Nevfx. I AM a bitter Saihai no Yukue fan and I admit it (and I'm also an adventure genre fan, whether it's point-and-click or something). Which explains the one line on the bottom of my sig and asking KOEI to release that game that I really desperately want to play (because of the interesting characters and storyline) is like Shenmue fans asking Yu Suzuki to release the third sequel ASAP (okay, not really, but you get the picture), i.e. asking the impossible.

But anyways, my point is that if I want to see KOEI branching out to every genre as a company, which therefore gain new fans, rather than a niche company who spews out more Warriors games to only those who can endure another Warriors-expansion-pack or something and therefore makes the Western gaming media groan in agony (they want to see more Gitaroo Man sequels than Dynasty Warriors #234 or something); they need to take themselves seriously and start branching out to gamers who don't really like or understand the Warriors series as a whole, but might be/like another-game-that-hasn't-got-the-word-'Warriors'. I mean, Capcom did it and it satisfies the fans of every genre, even today with the likes of Resident Evil, Street Fighter and of course, the Ace Attorney series.

And another note, I have this gut feeling that one day, Ben 'Yathzee' Croshaw WILL start to review one of the Warriors games, then mercifully rips them into pieces and WILL hurt anyone who pathetically defends the series. Like this one (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/35-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl) and his response to the fans (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/37-Mailbag-Showdown).

Sorry if I offend to every single Warriors fan and that I'm ranting like Yathzee hating the whole JRPG genre. I feel much better when I rant/criticise one particular subject that may or may not be understood by many people.

Onislash
14-05-09, 05:33 AM
You realize that they publish a few different genres as well? Not just Dynasty Warriors 4 million/Gundam 4 million/Samurai Warriors 4 million. In terms of rpgs there are a few NIS and Atlus games published by them that are rather different than traditional jrpgs (probably talking about Wild Arms, Suikoden and FF mainly in this case.)

Nevfx
15-05-09, 10:23 AM
Yeah, you're right Nevfx. I AM a bitter Saihai no Yukue fan and I admit it (and I'm also an adventure genre fan, whether it's point-and-click or something). Which explains the one line on the bottom of my sig and asking KOEI to release that game that I really desperately want to play (because of the interesting characters and storyline) is like Shenmue fans asking Yu Suzuki to release the third sequel ASAP (okay, not really, but you get the picture), i.e. asking the impossible.

But anyways, my point is that if I want to see KOEI branching out to every genre as a company, which therefore gain new fans, rather than a niche company who spews out more Warriors games to only those who can endure another Warriors-expansion-pack or something and therefore makes the Western gaming media groan in agony (they want to see more Gitaroo Man sequels than Dynasty Warriors #234 or something); they need to take themselves seriously and start branching out to gamers who don't really like or understand the Warriors series as a whole, but might be/like another-game-that-hasn't-got-the-word-'Warriors'. I mean, Capcom did it and it satisfies the fans of every genre, even today with the likes of Resident Evil, Street Fighter and of course, the Ace Attorney series.

And another note, I have this gut feeling that one day, Ben 'Yathzee' Croshaw WILL start to review one of the Warriors games, then mercifully rips them into pieces and WILL hurt anyone who pathetically defends the series. Like this one (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/35-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl) and his response to the fans (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/37-Mailbag-Showdown).

Sorry if I offend to every single Warriors fan and that I'm ranting like Yathzee hating the whole JRPG genre. I feel much better when I rant/criticise one particular subject that may or may not be understood by many people.

Your entitled to your opinion, of course I diasgree but that is just me. I don't listen to reviews either, I make my own opinion based on me playing of the game, not someone elses personal opinion, thats all reviews are, even proffessional ones.

You can rant all you want, its your right. Just expect, especially on KOEI EU's official forum ALOT of disagreement and arguments with you. But as for me, I respect your opinion and admit I do want to play Saihai no Yukue, and I'm shocked its not released yet. I LOVE RPGS, my favourte genre, but I can't say your opinions wrong or what have you as its not, its your opinion. Just you so know, I have no quarrel with you, you do make a just argument.

Jas
17-05-09, 12:28 PM
Hell ye, i sooooo agree with Sho-saka.

Koei we love you and we always will but, have you ever heard the saying :

"quality over quantity"

it really is the best thing for Koei.

Another say is "too much of something isn't good for you", and in this case people will get fed up or board, i.e. if you love pancakes, but you had it everyday you'll eventually get sick of it, right ?

I mean Diny 6 is a prime example, they forced it out toooooooooo quickly and thus most of the character were made as clones, and the game life was cut into a third, which personally ticked me off, and i will always hold that again't them, as it showed me that they still have a long way to go until they become a really big gaming company.

(BTW this is amied as Koei Europe, as you guys just help promot the games but this is aimed at the people at the head of the company)

Nevfx
18-05-09, 07:43 AM
Do you mean this "isn't" aimed at KOEI Europe.

Weren't they under pressure to release it? Maybe gaming companies need less pressure to get games out fast.

Jas
18-05-09, 09:32 PM
Na not at KOEI Europe, because they get put under pressure from Japan. KOEI Europe can only do the best with what there given and if KOEI Japan only give KOEI Europe half a product, then there not much you can do, thr proof is from all the statements from the hard core fans.

Nevfx
19-05-09, 09:25 AM
I meant in Japan. I didn't write that, I know, but I meant it.

Therefore, blame the people pressuring them.

Jas
19-05-09, 06:39 PM
Ye but they shouldn't bend to the pressure, they didn't have to, all the big companys release there products when they wont to not when there forced to, i'm mean i cann't really see why they were put under any pressure to release it early, it's could have been for financial reasons as they had just released WOZ and a few more.

The only reason i'm being so harsh is because i one of there biggest fans so it makes me one of there biggers critics, meh lol

Chi-Chi Blanche
20-05-09, 09:39 AM
Jas has a point, I think - they really didn't have to. I would've preferred to wait and receive more quality (which I was expecting to do anyway because I didn't know it was coming out on PC to begin with). Same thing happenned with FFX-2 (which I also refuse to accept as cannon because it just doesn't feel like one!!!), which I think really hurt the game.

I wouldn't mind seeing Sahai no Yukue come out in English, especially since my sister has a DS I can steal. And while I am a Warriors Fan, I think that it does get a bit too repetitive after a while, like DW2 was the original and the DW's that came later feel more like patches and upgrades to the original game or something like that, not a completely different game altogether. Even though I was excited getting DW6, I find myself not playing it much even though in many aspects I think it's better than 5. Why? I feel like I've done it all before D: Also why I'm planning to trade in WO2: the new characters were not worth it, basically. It's a pain and a shame to see this happening because KOEI are really only hurting themselves in the long run, which is sad :(

Jas
20-05-09, 09:47 AM
Thank you Chi-Chi, your totally seeing my point, in the long run there only hurting themselves, hich is thebggest shame.

Chi-Chi Blanche
20-05-09, 10:36 AM
You're welcome :)